AUSTIN: Seth Walker Interview by Abby Owen

Tuesday, 11/24/2009 – Texas Blues writer Abby Owen interviewed Seth Walker of Austin, TX for American Blues News.

Seth just finished up a weekend of shows. He played Antone’s in Austin TX on Friday night, and followed up with House of Blues in Houston TX on Saturday.


I caught up with him the following Tuesday at McGonigel’s Mucky Duck in Houston, TX, which by the way, had its name, albeit a different spelling, LONG before Maggie Smith’s character in Harry Potter.

Abby: So how was the show at House of Blues?
Seth: Oh it was great! I was with Ruthie… y’know Ruthie Foster?

Abby: I have heard of her.
Seth: Oh, you should, she’s fantastic. A fantastic soul. She’s a gospel, blues singer, soul singer. She’s a natural, y’know…from church. She’s fantastic. So I played Friday night with her, Friday at Antoine’s in Austin, Saturday at House of Blues in Houston. So yeah, a good weekend. Back in Houston.

Abby: So, tonight you’re doing a solo gig I take it. It’s not the full band?


Seth: No. We’re doing a songwriter’s thing, with Lisa Morales & Troy Campbell. Just a little songwriter…kind of swap. A song swap.

Abby: Just comfortable and low key I guess.
Seth: Yes. A ‘living room set’.

Abby: Well, let me just fire off the first question here then.
Seth: Okay.

Abby: How does the music come from you and find it's way into a song? Is it the lyric, a great melody? What tends to fuel your…creativity?
Seth: Spark something? Forever it used to be a melody. I’d always work off melodies. Driving down the road I’d hear a melody and sing ‘em into my phone or something. But as of late it’s been words. It’s just been reading.

Abby: The lyrics then?
Seth: Reading and lyrics, because that is really…I just love that. I love connecting with a lyric. It’s a very powerful thing, and it’s a challenging thing. So as of late, after working with Gary Nicholson who produced my last album, he’s the word man. He is...”You’re not going anywhere unless we get the words right”. And that’s a whole mode that I’m moving more towards.

Abby: Because you’re a storyteller. You’re telling a story.
Seth: It is a story, and it’s important. It’s not just about the singing and the playing. It’s the hat trick.

Abby: Who’s been the greatest influence on you musically, [musical style], than any other recording artist?
Seth: The influences range from Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, B B King, Tom Waits, Dylan, Guy Clark, John Prine, the great singers like Anita Oday, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald…

Abby: Is there one that you can just zero in on?
Seth: Ray Charles.

Abby: Ray Charles?
Seth: Without a doubt. I think he was just a complete inspiration to me in every way.

Abby: I can understand that.
Seth: I don’t think there are many people who can’t. He was a storyteller.

Abby: Did you ever meet him?
Seth: I opened up for him, but I didn’t get a chance to meet him. I have a poster that says Ray Charles, then all these other acts, and my name is right on the bottom!

Abby: Awesome! That you have that poster!
Seth: It is pretty cool. Pretty cool. I’ll take it!

Abby: What do you feel is your strongest point as an artist?
Seth: That is an interesting question. I think it’s…well, something I aspire to do is to break down the wall between myself and the listener and allow them in.

Abby: Make a connection?
Seth: Make a connection, and allow them in. Because a lot of times there’s…it’s easy to put a wall between it. And knocking down that thing can really, y’know it’s a reciprocal thing. It can really move both parties involved if it’s achieved.

Abby: I know exactly what you mean. I know other artists that have difficulty with that.
Seth: Yeah, you got to open yourself up, and it’s a vulnerable state. You have to just trust.

Abby: What would you like to improve upon as an artist?
Seth: Aw, man. It’s never-ending. I want to be a better singer. I want to be a better songwriter... Definitely. It’s a craft.

Abby: So you’d pick songwriting if it were one thing?
Seth: Well, they’re all pretty close to the top. They all sort of work in concert. For me, singing, performing, songwriting…and the whole thing. The presentation of this music, y’know how it’s presented. Everything, to answer your question.

Abby: Tell us about your newest CD.



Seth: The CD "Leap Of Faith" came out in March of 2009, and was recorded in Nashville. It was produced by Gary Nicholson who is a Grammy Award winner, a producer and a great writer, and now a dear friend. We met through a mutual friend who’s a radio promoter out of Nashville named Al Moss. When we met it was just a kindred thing we had, and one of those situations where I’m relaxed with Gary, but I’m also ‘On Pointe’ with Gary. That’s the perfect combination with any one you work with, with any relationship you have. When you can be yourself, but want to be better. It was natural. We have the same sensibilities, and the same sense of humor. He’s a world class person. First it was merely songwriting collaboration, but then we were like, hey man; we need to do a damn record! So that’s how it spawned, and here we are. He co-wrote about eight of the songs, out of the eleven, with me. It’s been good.

Abby: How did you come up with the title “Leap Of Faith”?
Seth: That was actually one of the last additions to the album. It was actually a song he wrote. I didn’t write that song. Glen Clark and Gary Nicholson wrote that song. We went over lots of titles, but it was a leap of faith for me. It really was. It was the first time I had done a record not on my own terms, out of my comfort zone. I had done all of my previous records my own way. I went to Nashville, and had a new group of musicians, new producer, new bag of songs collaborating with a different writer that I’d never worked with, and lots of y’know…it was an investment emotionally & financially to do it, and so I thought that would be a good title.

Abby: It works. That’s great.
Seth: And it’s a great song that they wrote.

Abby: You’ve recorded many of your songs in the studio. How much of what you do in the studio works out? Do you throw some of it away?
Seth: Sure. Sure. There are some. For instance on the Leap of Faith record we had about…probably 14 or 15 tunes that we thought were contenders, that we actually cut. There were other contenders that we didn’t cut, but 14 or 15 that we actually cut. And then we just kind of look at them to see if the performance is there, or the strength of the song is going to carry it, to be on the record. So, yeah. There are a couple of lonesome little straggler songs that never saw the light of day. But I enjoy working in the studio. It’s a different thing obviously than live. It’s a controlled environment, and you have lots of options. It’s wide open. It’s a very creative process and I enjoy it. But there’s something to be said for live performance. I mean the energy that you get back from an audience.

Abby: Do you have any plans to do a live CD coming up?
Seth: It’s something I…it’s on deck. I don’t know when. I don’t know if it’s going to be next record, but it’s something I’ll do in the next couple of records.

Abby: Did you work closely with the sound engineers?
Seth: On the record? Oh Yeah. Yeah, we cut it in Nashville. But yeah, that’s the way it always goes. There’s always a few that never quite make it. But maybe we’ll re-visit them the next time around. It’s also that the songs have to go together, in theme too, y’know?

Abby: Yeah. It has to make sense.
Seth: Yeah. It’s an album. They need to flow together. And that’s one of the things, when they go to the cutting block, that’s some of the reasons why they don’t make it.

Abby: What is your favorite song on the album?
Seth: I like ‘At Least I Got a Song’. It’s one that just kind of spilled out of this y’know…

Abby: I like that one. I think that is my favorite.
Seth: Yeah, it’s one of those that you just …y’know

Abby: Yeah, you can relate to it.
Seth: Garrett actually wrote a song called ‘Some Days The Song Writes You, and Some Days You Write the Songs’, and that was one that wrote us.

Abby: Wow. Gives you chills.
Seth: Yeah.

Abby: What song posed the biggest challenge?
Seth: That one. It took the most work. The concept came quick, but it’s a complex chord progression, and we had to kind of figure out what’s the best way to get around it. It took about three or four days to finally nail it down, about how we wanted to present it. That was the most challenging one for sure.

Abby: So, not so much the singing, but the playing of the song?
Seth: Well the singing was tough too, because that song actually reaches a new range for me that is… on the bridge it goes real high for me where I never sang in that register, so we had to work on that as well.

Abby: Do genre considerations come in to play when you write a song?
Seth: Yeah, y’know. To an extent. I mean I’m fully aware of the genre that I’m in. I like all genres of music. I really do. Being this is my 6th album I’ve been able to explore the different platforms, and I know this is what suits me the best. This style. But yes, that does play a factor, but it’s really all about a concept. A concept to a feeling is what inspires me. I’ll get an idea of how a tune could sprout y’know? A lot of times it comes…having a cup of coffee…

Abby: Through experiences.
Seth: Through experiences. Shoot, there’s been plenty of that! But sometimes it comes through a phrase. Through a passing phrase, or if you’ve read a book and there was a phrase in it, like I read a lot of Jack Kerouac, y’know? Obscure writers…well, not obscure but…


Abby: Edgy?
Seth: Edgy, with a little twist on a word, and that *snaps fingers* usually gets it going.

Abby: You’re predominantly a guitarist, but many have said it’s your voice that they enjoy the most. I would be one of those…
Seth: Alright. I’ll take it.

Abby: Do you prefer the job of guitarist or vocalist?
Seth: Definitely Vocalist. I mean, I’m an accompanying guitar player, and I enjoy playing it and I can do it, but the voice? I feel like I have my own unique…my own little way of doing it whatever that’s worth, but I enjoy that… breathing a lyric, y’know? Singing a lyric and breathing it…it’s like y’know…

Abby: So you feel that’s your creativity, more than the playing?
Seth: Well, it’s all together, because it’s all one thing. Getting back to the question earlier that relates to some of the other questions you had about recording…I have to sing and play at the same time. I’ve been doing it for so long, or playing live gigs for so long…

Abby: So, you mean in the studio when your recording vocals, you’re playing?
Seth: On ‘Leap of Faith’ I’m playing guitar on all that, and singing it. It’s the only way I know how, because they’re all connected. Like walking. You got to use both legs to walk. Of course there are sometimes when I use over-dubbing on the vocals where I didn’t nail it, y’know? Singing is very therapeutic. It’s the thing that connects. I’m never going to be another B B King or T-Bone Walker, y’know? They got that right the first time. And that’s where I stand on that.

Abby: Do you prefer acoustic to electric?
Seth: I’ve always played electric. I have an Archtop electric guitar that’s an old cool box that I’ve played for years, but as of late I’ve been doing a lot of solo shows like I’m doing tonight and I play acoustic guitar, and I’m really starting to enjoy that acoustic…it’s great for solo, because you can get that sort of percussive thing, but for the most part, to answer your question, my experience has been with my Archtop electric guitar.

Abby: So you’d say that that is your favorite? I know it’s a hard decision.
Seth: If I had to choose, I’d go with that.

Abby: How many guitars do you have?
Seth: I have one, two, three, four. I have two acoustic, and two electrics. It’s a good number.

Abby: Yeah. Gives you a little choice.
Seth: I’ll take it.

Abby: Do you play any other instruments?
Seth: I play cello. I grew up on the cello. I’ve played cello since I was four to sixteen. Both my parents were classical musicians.

Abby: Oh? Well, that helps.
Seth: Yeah. They’re classical musicians. I grew up in North Carolina, with music all around me.

Abby: Yeah. Brothers & sisters?
Seth: I have a sister, but I grew up on a Quaker commune actually. I don’t know if you read that in the bio. Yeah. I grew up with another family. My folks and another couple met early on and decided to build this house together, so we lived as one… communal program. Nine of us. Pretty interesting, I mean definitely, definitely unique.

Abby: Do your parents enjoy your music?
Seth: Yes. They’re my number one fans for sure. They’re unbelievably great, talented people.



Abby: There was a lot of music in that house, I would imagine.
Seth: The other family was not that…they weren’t musicians at all but Jim, my other kind of ‘quasi-dad’ loved Texas country music. He loved Willie and Jerry Jeff Walker and Gary P Nunn and Jimmy Buffet and all these guys… Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt. So that music was kind of instilled in me from a young age, and I didn’t realize what an impact it had made on me until much later in life, because I was into classical mode, and I was being a kid, being a teenager, runnin’ around drinkin’ Busch Light out of a can, y’know. Then as I started to get…especially when I came to Texas, I was like…[shoot]…

Abby: Yeah! A good fit. Part of your make-up.
Seth: It’s kind of like my DNA, yeah.

Abby: Well, I have to ask this, because I think it’s one of the first things that someone notices about your music, and that is that you have such an authentic blues sound, and it makes me want to ask you…how does that happen with a young guy…
Seth: ...a white guy?

Abby: No, a young guy that couldn’t have had that many troubles in your life, but you’ve tapped in to that feeling of the blues. How do you explain that?
Seth: Well, uh…when I first started playing the guitar, when I first picked up the guitar in college a bluesy sound was always what…it was a natural thing for me. Like, to bend a string. With a cello…you don’t bend strings with a cello. It’s a very Caucasian proposition…in a good way! I love classical music. It’s beautiful. But with the guitar I was like…you could y’know, bend the string. And I was like, whoa! I just loved that feeling. I don’t know, I just connected with that thread, and I just went with it, and of course plenty of… plenty of mistakes along the way to inspire many blues songs. I’ve made…a couple. Just a few. It’s not something that I have to manufacture or fabricate.

Abby: It just comes out.
Seth: It just comes out. I don’t feel like I’m an imposter with it.

Abby: I don’t get that feeling either. It just seems so natural. Like you’ve really tapped into something that’s real.
Seth: That’s why I continue to do it. I mean I think I would know. My heart and soul would know...it would tell me…You know buddy? I know you like the blues, and I know it’s cool, but you probably shouldn’t go there.

Abby: If you weren’t singing the blues what would you be doing?
Seth: I’d either be writing…creative writing, or painting. That’s two things that I do on the side. I have paintings here tonight actually that I did on the side.

I went to art school at East Carolina University, studying graphic art and creative drawing. I like that, but I really love to write too. Creative writing is one of my favorite things to do. I have a blog on my web-site you can read that’s kind of…

Abby: I’ll have to read that!
Seth: Yeah, it shows that side y’know...its fun. I’m no pro at it but I really enjoy that. So, I’d be a starving writer…

Abby: So what’s next for you?
Seth: …sleeping on your couch. (laughs)



Abby: (laughing) Besides sleeping on my couch, what’s next for you?
Seth: What’s next for me? Spending a lot more time in Nashville.

Abby: Sounds like a good plan.
Seth: Kind of basing my hub there. It’s going to be a kind of hub for me, and touring out of there. And writing…I’ll be doing a new record in the next year, at some point. And continuing the press of touring. The full court press, which is always on…y’know?

Abby: Yeah, work.

Seth: Yeah, busting rocks with that, and I enjoy that. But I’ve been doing a lot of solo work, which is a new thing for me, and I really enjoy that. It’s become a necessity out on the road because it is so tough. It’s tight. I mean, it’s tight. So, solo’s been a vehicle for me to do, and I’ll be doing more of that. I’ll be doing band stuff of course as well, but I’m keeping my options open.

Abby: Last question.
Seth: Yep.

Abby: What would you like your audience to know about you that hasn’t been said?
Seth: That hasn’t been said? Well, I really am humbled to do it. I really am. I mean I really have to stop and think, because when I start to moan, I have to remind myself that I’ve been given the gift to play music and sing and to move, to create positive energy and affect peoples’ lives. I say that’s a beautiful gift, and I’m humbled to do it.

Abby: Good answer!



Seth: Cool!

To wind up my visit with Seth Walker, I would just like to say that he really was a very humble and pleasant person to meet, and I wish him all the success he deserves.

I also can’t help but think that Seth’s most valued predecessor, Mr Charles is up there in the ‘great gig in the sky’ looking down on young Mr Walker (for surely in heaven, Ray Charles can see), and soaking in the music of this bright talent so dedicated to keeping Blues music alive, and doing it very well I might add. What’s that Mr Charles? What’s that...”I’ll take it” he says, and smiles like only Ray could.

Copyright © 2009 - Abby Owen. All Rights Reserved
Interview Photos: Copyright © 2009 - Brian Smith. All Rights Reserved.
Photo from 'October Biscuit Tour 2009': Copyright © 2009 - Seth Walker.
Opening Photo by Kaysie Dorsey (Pixel Peach): Copyright © 2009 - Pixel Peach. All Rights Reserved.

CHICAGO BLUES: Alligator Records Part Two by Gatorman

PART TWO

Today I am continuing the interview of December 2, 2009, with Bruce Iglauer. Bruce is the founder and head of the independent blues record label Alligator Records in Chicago.

If I was to listen to your Ipod what song would I hear?


First, I don’t own an Ipod. I really hate compressed files because they eliminate so many of the subtleties of the recording and the mix. In a car you can’t tell, but if you play a compressed file against the original CD, you can tell the difference in a second…assuming you’re not listening through earbuds or computer speakers.


But if you want to know what I listen to for pleasure, the answer is almost always blues records from the 1950s and 1960s. If I had to listen to only one artist for the rest of my life, it would almost certainly be Elmore James. I could argue he was the greatest blues singer of all time, just a chilling voice. Plus, I’m a slide guitar freak.


What blues song do you think could be a representative of Chicago blues?


Tough question. Do you mean the ‘classic’ Chicago blues of the 1950s? In that case, my choice would be something obvious, like “Hoochie Coochie Man”, with the lineup of electric guitars, amplified harp, piano, bass and drums and a charismatic vocalist like Muddy. If we start talking about the somewhat ‘modern’ era, I’d pick another obvious choice, like Otis Rush’s “I Can’t Quit You, Baby”. If we’re talking about today’s Chicago blues, it’s harder to define, because the language of blues has become more universal. There is less Chicago about Chicago blues now than in the past. I’d probably listen to one of the so-called throwback artists, like Lil’ Ed or Magic Slim, who could have been recording in the 60s as easily as today.


Can you define what a true Blues Man is?


Honestly, the answer is  ‘no.’ I would say that being a blues man or woman in my mind is more than being a musician. The music must be an expression of your soul. Like John Lee Hooker said, “it’s in him and it’s got to come out.” There’s another song (can’t remember who wrote it) that says “I didn’t choose the blues, the blues chose me.”  And I do believe that you can’t perform blues effectively without having lived a lot of life. That’s why some of the kid guitar hotshots don’t impress me. They can play a lot of notes very fast, but they don’t understand the emotional function of each one. As I like to say, they don’t know what the important notes are, so they don’t know which ones tell the story. And often they don’t understand that a rest (when you don’t play a note) is part of the music and the storytelling too.


Can you tell our readers what Lumpty lump is?


Ah, an easy one! Yes, it’s a type of shuffle where the rhythm goes “lumpty lumpty” like a horse cantering. A “true” lump for me involves playing the same note twice in the bass pattern. But when blues musicians are jamming, they can say “Lump in G from the 5” and count it off, and they will all be speaking pretty much the same musical language. Someone like Bob Stroger is a great lump bass player. And Jimmy Reed was the king of putting great catchy lyrics to a lump beat.


You just concluded your seat on the Board of Directors for The Blues Foundation. Tell us a little bit about that experience.


I am a big supporter of the Blues Foundation, and consider the production of the International Blues Challenge and the Blues Music Awards to be major achievements, and very good for our community. Nonetheless, I wish the Foundation would do a lot more, especially in the area of blues education. The mission statement of the Foundation talks about “ensuring the future of the blues” and I think blues education in the schools and elsewhere is a lot of that job. Blues is not fashionable music at all right now, and younger people have almost no way to learn about it and become fans. So I wish the Foundation would dedicate itself to that goal. During my time on the board, I was considered to be pretty much of a maverick, and probably wasn’t the best-liked person there. I bumped heads with the staff quite a bit too. We just see things very differently. I believe in the mission of the Foundation. It’s a question of how to fulfill that mission where we often disagree.


Pat Morgan, Pinetop Perkins’ manager, is the new president of the Blues Foundation. I am eager to see how she steps into the role, and how she affects things. Paul Benjamin, the outgoing president, was very much responsible for significant improvement in the BMAs. Jay Sieleman, the executive director, has done a great deal to make the IBC a truly fine event. But producing two major events, no matter how good, is just not enough.


Where do you see the genre in the future?


This is a crucial and scary time for the blues The most famous icons of our music, B.B. King and Buddy Guy, are in their 80s and 70s. After them, no one artist has achieved a national profile that anywhere near equals theirs. B.B. has been amazing for the blues, both as a musician and as a spokesman. To have someone like him, who can communicate with audiences so easily and who can go on TV or radio and speak so eloquently about the blues, is a miracle, and has helped make the blues known worldwide. What other blues man can come on the Tonight Show and charm everyone? Unfortunately, no one who is coming up in the blues has that kind of combination of charisma, talent and eloquence, as well as being really well known. I’m afraid when B.B. is no longer with us, many people will pronounce the blues ‘dead’. And it is true that the ‘young guns’ of the blues are mostly middle aged now. There are some good young artists, but many of them are guitar slingers rather than the whole package. And try to name someone under the age of 40 leading a working blues band in Chicago, or almost anywhere. That’s not true in almost any other genre of music. We need to nurture our younger artists. We also need to have an expansive definition of blues, and lots of blues fans want new blues that sounds just like old blues. If the music doesn’t evolve, it will petrify. I don’t want blues to be like Dixieland jazz…a museum piece with a few hardcore old fans that want re-creations of what has already happened. You’ll never beat Muddy at being Muddy. I can never understand why I get so many demos of Muddy and Robert Johnson songs. Do you really think you can bring something new to those, and make me forget the originals?


What are some of today’s challenges?


There are many. For a start, people aren’t buying music like they used to. This includes both recorded music, and, to some extent, live music. Ever since 1999, when illegal downloading began, record stores have been closing. We’ve lost literally thousands of them. And the remaining ones are mostly stocking the hits, just like Wal-mart. As you can imagine, it’s pretty tough to get blues records into hits-only stores. And stores were where a lot of fans (and potential fans) found out about new recordings for the first time. A good record store could be a port of entry for people to discover new music and even genres of music they didn’t know about. Now that discovery isn’t happening. Unfortunately, a lot of blues fans are older, and aren’t very committed to shopping on the web. So our sales through Amazon and our own web site, www.alligator.com are not nearly as large as you’d expect. And many blues customers don’t want to buy downloads. With our roots artists like Eric Lindell and JJ Grey Mofro, downloads can be around 30% of their sales. For our blues artists, they are more like 12%.


Still, the best way that a blues artist has to promote his or her career is live performance. Most of our artists tour year-around, usually the old-fashioned way, driving their own vans, hauling trailers, carrying their own gear with no road management or help of any kind. Only a few have buses or even an extra person to help. They survive by gigging as constantly as possible, selling CDs at the gigs (which is very important to us, as you’d imagine) and living almost from gig to gig. With blues not being so fashionable, and the economy in so much trouble, it’s harder and harder for the artists to get the weekday gigs they need to support their touring. Having nights off is really expensive and most of our artists would be happy to gig 6 or 7 nights a week if the work were there. They’re not lazy! They try to save money from better paying festival dates and overseas tours, but it’s hard.


How have you monopolized the internet?


We have hardly monopolized the internet! However, I can brag that I believe we were the first blues label to begin selling online, back in 1995. Our site at www.alligator.com offers not only the entire Alligator catalog of CDs but also Alligator-branded clothing and books, DVDs, calendars and other merchandise that I think any blues fan would be interested in.  Besides selling, our web site includes bio materials on all our artists, a complete history of the label, tour calendars and booking information for all our artists, an online jukebox that streams hundreds of Alligator tracks, a goodies section that includes free downloads, news of the label and artists, and most important, a place where fans can sign up to be on our mailing list! Besides offering them special deals from our site, we also inform them of gigs by Alligator artists in their area. We recently expanded this service to inform our Canadian and European customers about upcoming gigs and tours.


More recently, we’ve established myspace and Facebook sites for any of our artists who didn’t have them, and I’ve even begun to twitter, though I have to say that I think it’s kind of silly. Myspace and Facebook are good tools to let fans know where gigs are.  These also include links to artist’s videos. We’re continuing to explore all kinds of online communication, as we’re very aware that traditional media is struggling. It sure was a lot easier when there weren’t so many bloggers and podcasters trying to convince us how important their work was!


I hate to ask this question, but there is a rumor that you turned down Stevie Ray Vaughn. Is that true and if so why?


I heard Stevie live around 1980. At that time, he was playing what I heard as lots and lots of Albert King licks at about three times Albert’s volume. I didn’t hear original songs or much in the way of original guitar playing. In fact, as much as I appreciate and admire Stevie for turning on so many people to the blues (and for producing our wonderful Lonnie Mack record, “Strike Like Lightning”, which he also played on), I don’t think many of his fans realized that he was playing a lot of other people’s licks. Stevie had an amazing ability to absorb existing styles and playing. His playing of Albert King’s and Lonnie Mack’s styles was uncanny, and you could also hear his huge vocabulary of guitar from the players like Clarence Holliman, Roy Gaines and Pat Hare, who did lots of session work behind singers like Bobby Blue Bland and Junior Parker. Of course Stevie pumped up the volume and the intensity, but he would be the first to point the spotlight at his inspirations. So, I heard Stevie playing a lot of things that I considered derivative, and passed on him. I would say that he grew a great deal as an artist, but his music didn’t really excite me a lot until about halfway through his recording career, when he began to write more original songs. I think his best, most original and personal music was still ahead of him. Of course, his death was a huge loss for the blues. No one since has managed to bring the blues to a new, young audience. We didn’t know how much we needed him until he was gone. As Tinsley Ellis says, the only thing worse than a world full of Stevie Ray imitators is a world without them.


Now, don’t ask me who ELSE I foolishly turned down!


Do you have any secrets you would like to share with our readers?


You mean, besides the names of the artists I mistakenly passed on? What I’d say to aspiring blues recording artists is—don’t get into this music because you think there’s a career for you there. There probably isn’t, and if there is one, it will be a constant struggle without much financial reward. Play this music because you love it, because it soothes your soul and makes you smile. If someone hears you and likes you, great! But keep your day job.


For aspiring record business people, I’d say—this is about the hardest time ever for anyone trying to run anything that resembles a record label. If you are determined to try it, apprentice to an existing label first. I learned a lot as I went along, but there is not time for that now. You need to know what you’re getting into before you get into it, not afterward.


If you could go back in time what one thing would you change?


This question made me smile. The first thing I’d do is go back and see Elmore James and Sonny Boy Williamson live. In fact, I’d see plenty more blues men and women…Tommy Johnson, Skip James, Louise Johnson, Cripple Clarence Lofton, young Gatemouth, hundreds and hundreds. As far as business, there are some chances I should have taken and didn’t. I could have signed Otis Rush, for example. And I would have invented cloning so that I could clone myself and have a couple of selves working all night so that I could go out to more gigs!


What are most proud of?


Wow. Lots of things. I have given many great artists recording opportunities and career opportunities they might never have otherwise had. I have helped make recordings that will stand the test of time, from Hound Dog Taylor to Professor Longhair to Koko Taylor to Lil’ Ed to Corey Harris to Michael Hill to dozens more. I hope I’ve helped enlarge the audience for blues, and helped to carry the tradition into the future.


What’s Next?


Right now we’re working on albums by The Holmes Brothers and Guitar Shorty for March release. In April we should have a new Janiva Magness. Soon I’ll be going into the studio with Smokin’ Joe Kubek & Bnois King for a 2010 release.  I’m constantly listening and watching artists, trying to fine the visionary blues men and women for the next generation. I hope I have enough vision to recognize them. I like to think that the future of Alligator Records and the future of the blues will be one and the same.


Thank you Bruce for your time.


Terry " Gatorman" Lape


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CHICAGO BLUES: Alligator Records Part One by Terry "Gatorman" Lape

Part One

Alligator Records

Bruce Iglauer

Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to answer a few questions for me.   


How did you first start in the record business?


I came to Chicago at the beginning of 1970 to work for Bob Koester, my mentor and hero, at his label, Delmark Records, and in his store, the (still wonderful) Jazz Record Mart. I thought I was going to stay for a year and then go to graduate school, but I’m still here. At first I just wanted to be around the blues scene, and to see recordings being made. I became Bob’s shadow; if he went to a South or West Side club, I went along. If he went to the studio, I was there as gopher. If he was editing tape, I wanted to watch. My first recording session was “Junior Wells’ South Side Blues Jam” with Buddy Guy, Louis Myers, Otis Span, Fred Below and Earnest Johnson. It was like going to heaven. I also got to watch/help out on sessions with Robert Lockwood Jr., Roosevelt Sykes, Jimmy Dawkins and a few others. I never dreamed of having my own label; I just wanted to work for Delmark. Bob is still a huge hero to me, and I feel he’s never gotten the credit he deserves as a key figure in bringing the blues to the world. I walk in his footsteps.


At that time, the entire blues scene was in the black community, and I was going to the little ghetto blues bars 4-5 nights a week. The music was often just terrific, and the atmosphere was very special. The musicians and the audience were basically the same people, and they communicated in a way that I don’t see when blues is more of a presentation, as it usually is today. The people in these ghetto clubs shared a cultural understanding, a history and understood blues as a way to heal everyone’s emotional wounds, not just a form of entertainment. Those nights were some of the happiest experiences of my life. Often I was the only white person there, and almost everyone was very friendly and welcoming. Sometimes the street was a little scary, but the clubs (which were basically neighborhood bars with a band) were full of working class people who understood that I was there for the music, and appreciated it. This was before I was a record guy; I was just a fan, and a “hippie” (at least in appearance). I got to know a lot of musicians personally.

Junior Wells always kept an eye on me and we drank on street corners. People like Lefty Dizz , Eddie Shaw, Big Bad Ben and Magic Slim were really nice to me.




Why the Blues?


It’s hard to explain, and I don’t entirely understand it myself. They say that if you don’t love the blues, you have a hole in your soul. Well, it seems like the blues fills the hole in my soul. From the first time I really heard blues, at a Fred McDowell performance in 1966, it was as though blues spoke directly to the innermost part of me. I know that sounds corny, but it’s true. I felt Fred’s music was the most honest, direct and emotional thing I had ever heard. After that, other kinds of music seemed false and plastic. These days, I’m not an easy man to move with music, but when the blues works for me, it still works just like it did that first time. Blues has made me happier than I ever imagined, and it’s wrenched me more than I ever imagined. Sometimes it’s so good it makes me cry (in a good way). First and foremost, I’m a fan. That’s crucial in understanding what Alligator is about. I made a label to share my fan-dom with others.


In 1971 you left another blues label shortly after you recorded Hound Dog Taylor & the House Rockers. Did you have any idea at that time that you would become one of the most influential Blues Men in the industry today?

Not at all. When I recorded Hound Dog (while I was still working at Delmark Records), all I hoped was to sell enough copies to make another record. I never dreamed of a catalog of 260 albums. Hell, I never dreamed of having an employee! Everything was day to day, just trying to make my company survive. I never wanted to be a businessman, but I realized early on that unless I was good at business, I couldn’t make more records. So, I learned. A lot of people I know tried to start labels at that time. They loved the music but didn’t take time to learn the business.


What did it cost for that very first record?


That’s easy—my first studio bill was $956 dollars. That included cutting the master disc. We recorded direct to two-track, mixing as we went. There was nothing to do over. We recorded each song a couple of times, and chose the best versions.  I paid the band $960 dollars--$480 for Hound Dog and $240 each for the other two members of the band. Of course, that was an advance. They made thousands on royalties over the years. I pressed 1000 LP's, and got the jackets printed on credit. Then the hard work began!


In the start up years, what were some of the challenges you faced?


Essentially, everything, I had no distributors, no radio play, no press, no booking for the artists I recorded, no road management, nothing. I was on my own. So, I found distributors (some of them I knew as Delmark distributors, but others I had to find; I wanted distributors who weren’t so specialized that they only dealt with a few stores), made my own contacts with radio and press, booked the bands, traveled with them, published their music, and pretty much did everything, including packing and shipping the boxes of LPs. I could only afford to release one album a year, and if that one didn’t sell, it was hard to get the distributors to pay me for anything. I was operating out of an efficiency apartment in the Uptown neighborhood of Chicago. It took two years to move to a three-room apartment, and a year later I bought a small house. It took from 1971, when I started, until 1985, before I wasn’t living in the same place as Alligator. I didn’t have a full time employee until 1977. Eventually I had seven people coming to my house, with LPs warehoused in the basement and 7000 cassettes in the kitchen. I knew then it was time to move, either the label or me. I chose to move the label, and I still live in the house. Alligator has never stopped being a challenge, or a battle. Actually, this may be the hardest time ever in the history of the label. I don’t know how record labels are going to survive the closing of literally thousands of stores and the rampant illegal downloading. Plus blues is not at the peak of its popularity right now. We need some young champions of the music who have a vision for taking the blues into the future.


Can you name some of the very first artist’s you recorded?


Sure. Hound Dog Taylor, Big Walter Horton, Son Seals, Fenton Robinson, Koko Taylor, Lonnie Brooks, Albert Collins and the Living Chicago Blues series, which had 18 different artists spread over six LPs. It’s now four CDs.


Can you tell us a little bit about the costs involved to develop an artist for recording?


Every album varies in costs. First, there is the cost of the musicians, both the sidemen and the leader. These can vary a lot. Then there’s the studio cost—typically $600 to $1000 per day. In the old days, recording tape was a big expense, often $1500 or more for an album. We usually spend between three and ten days recording, and mixing is usually about three songs a day. There are artists who record really quickly, like Lil’ Ed & The Blues Imperials, and artists who need more time. When I’m the producer (I’ve produced or co-produced about 125 albums), I prefer the faster artists. I’m not super patient!


I like to do as much rehearsal as possible. I don’t think the studio is the place to experiment with arrangements. The studio is the place to get the best possible performance. But sometimes, when I’m working with an out of town band, we have to pull a lot of the music together in the studio.


Once I’ve recorded and mixed, then there’s mastering (usually around $1000-$1500 if you want it done right), photos, packaging. And then we get to manufacture about 4500 CDs that we give away as promo copies, to radio, press, and retailers. Then we have to buy retail programs at the stores—things like listening posts and top shelf positions and featured placements. None of those things are free. And we have to do our basic advertising. Usually this means that we’re spending $15-20,000 per release to set up the recording in the marketplace before we sell a single copy.


In the meantime, we’re working with the artist, the booking agent and hopefully a professional artist manager to do tour planning, so that the artist is out in front of the public when the new release is being promoted. We have about three months when the media and stores will think of something as a new release. After that, it’s back catalog.  During that three month period, we will spend additional money advertising and publicizing every gig the artist does. We continue to publicize gigs after that, but our big advertising push is in those first 90 days.


One thing that’s important to understand is that we have to pay for all these things, on a product that gives us a profit of around $6 per CD (less for a downloaded album).  So it’s a very risky proposition. Alligator spends more promoting a release than anyone else in blues, and I like to think we do it better.


How do you find new artists?


I’m constantly listening to artists, both on demos or home made recordings (or on other labels) and at live gigs. The first thing I go by is my gut feeling. Does this artist reach my emotions, stir me, touch a little of my soul? It’s MY label; I have to believe in everything we release.


Alligator probably signs at the most one or two new artists a year. So, as you’d imagine, these decisions are terribly important. Besides the cost of making a new record, including paying the artist, we spend tens of thousands of dollars promoting, marketing and advertising every new release. And of course we also spend hundreds of hours of human time trying to attract the attention of the media, the retailers and potential customers. Plus, for every artist or band we sign, this means there are hundreds that we don’t sign. If one of them had been a better choice (or maybe not signing anyone new and attempting to further promote our existing roster of artists would have been the smartest choice), then we have wasted a huge amount of time and money. In 2009, the new artists we signed were Buckwheat Zydeco and Tommy Castro, who were obviously already well-established acts. Plus, we released the debut by Rick Estrin & The Nightcats, who had begun life as Little Charlie and the Nightcats and spent their whole recording career with Alligator. In 2008, we signed Janiva Magness, Eddy “The Chief” Clearwater and Smokin’ Joe Kubek and Bnois King. Again, these were artists who had already had some success on other labels. The last artists we signed who had not been on a nationally distributed label before Alligator were Eric Lindell in 2006 and Michael Burks in 2002.


So, obviously, one thing I look at when considering artists is their previous recording history, including their sales history. I’m always looking for artists who have done a lot to establish their own fan base, whether locally and regionally or nationally. I need artists who have some sense of how to take care of their own careers, or who may have some kind of professional management or booking agent. I can’t deal with artists who are ‘weekend warriors’ or who are unprepared for major touring; getting in front of audiences is the best way blues and roots artists can create fans and sell their music. There isn’t enough radio and other media for blues and roots to make touring less than totally essential.

Of course I look for artists who have their own sound and style, well connected to blues but not repeating what’s already been done. This is a tough row to hoe for artists. The pressure is often to do familiar songs and re-create familiar sounds. But Muddy Waters didn’t become famous by coping Son House and Robert Johnson. B.B. didn’t become famous trying to copy T-Bone Walker. So creating your own songs, or taking other people’s songs and making something fresh from them, is essential for anyone hoping to be signed with Alligator.

Above all, there is the live performance. If an artist can thrill me on stage (and I’m a tough sell), then I’m interested. That includes the ability to play but also to sing really well, and to communicate with the audience.


I do still listen to demos, but it’s been a long time since I found an artist based on his or her demo recording. And these days so many artists who aren’t ‘ready’ are financing their own albums and sending them to me. They are expecting me to take an hour of my life to listen to their album, and are often resentful when I only listen to the first four songs. As almost no one else in the industry listens to demos at all, I would hope they would be thrilled just to get a listen, but often my honest response leads to an angry reply, not a ‘thank you for taking the time’ note. No one wants to hear “you can’t sing”, even when they asked for my opinion. And “you can’t sing” (said really nicely) is my most common criticism of demos and self-made records that I receive.


Can you tell us some of the steps involved in recording an artist?


One thing that distinguishes Alligator from most other blues labels is how much preparation we put in before recording. In the old days, when so much of the standard blues repertoire was still new to younger fans, labels like Delmark could bring artists into the studio and if they didn’t write a lot (like Magic Sam), they could still make great records of songs that are familiar now but weren’t then. Now I work very closely with my artists on repertoire and arrangements, to try to make each album as fresh and original as possible. If I am producer, I generally rehearse quite a bit before we get to the studio, trying to figure out how to give each song its individual identity, planning the dynamics, and honing the lyrics. I try to involve the whole band in creating the arrangement. Musicians play with more fire if they have some ownership of the arrangement instead of just coming in playing a pre-defined part. Plus, sessions are more fun that way.


Some of my artists produce themselves, like Tinsley Ellis , Rick Estrin, Eric Lindell, Lee Rocker and Roomful of Blues. Some bring their own producers, like Marcia Ball, Janiva Magness and Tommy Castro. For some, like Lil’ Ed, Michael Burks and Smokin’ Joe Kubek; Bnois King, I produce with the artist. Under almost all circumstances, I’m going to be involved with the choice of songs and give some input on the arrangements. One thing I like to point out is that I am running a commercial record company, albeit in a specialized field of music. I’m not just saying to my artists “express yourself.” I want them to make honest records that they believe in, with songs they want to perform live. But I also have strong feelings about what each artist’s most distinctive talents are, and why I wanted them on Alligator. I’m not shy about saying to an artist, “that’s the kind of song your fans like” or “that’s not really a song that is showing what makes you special” or “that’s one that will challenge the public definition of you.”


Generally I will insist on approving the mixes and mastering, and want input into the order of songs on an album. I am often called a control freak, but that’s mostly by people who don’t understand the kind of input a label normally has into its releases (outside the world of blues). It’s my job to sell the final album. If the artist gives me something that I can’t sell, then I’m going to disappoint him or her. I have had situations where an artist wants very much to make an album that I don’t believe shows the artist’s strengths, or I simply believe is wrong-headed for that artist, and that I won’t be able to market effectively. In that case, I have sometimes released an artist rather than put out an album I don’t believe in.


What do you look for in a new artist or signing an artist?


I’ve answered some of this already, but to summarize—I want artists who have a real musical vision, with at least one foot firmly in the blues/R&B tradition but other elements that make their music personal and different from what’s already been done. I want artists with both vocal and instrumental talent. I ideally want artists who write their own material, or can personalize songs written by others. The point is of course that they need to have a distinctive, personal sound. I absolutely need artists who know how to deliver on stage. Blues and roots music is all about communication skills, both musical and visual. It’s not only music, it’s also show business, so a visually boring act is not for me (though I know that some artists can hold stock still and keep the attention of the audience through their intensity). I need artists who understand that they are in the business of being professional musicians, and that it’s a full time job. The fun part is doing a show. The un-fun part is leading a band (very different skill set), honoring contracts, working with booking agents, being media-available and media-friendly, not getting too ‘relaxed’ on substances to keep from delivering a top notch show and total professionalism. I need artists who have already established some kind of fan base, even if it’s just local; I need to have something to build on. Ideally, I’d like artists who are internet-savvy and take care of things like Myspace and Facebook. And of course I need artists who are prepared to sell their CDs from the stage, understand how to do that, and don’t think they are ‘above’ taking the fans’ money! But ultimately the real and final question is—does their music move me?  I have built Alligator to be a label that has a consistently of quality, rootedness, and musical urgency. I have to believe in every release. The Alligator Logo is also the Bruce Seal Of Approval. I admit there are some releases I like better than others, but my concept of the label is all killer, no filler.



Terry " Gatorman" Lape

PART TWO NEXT WEEK


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Chicago Blues: Diamond JIm Greene by Terry "Gatorman" Lape

HAPPY VETERAN"S DAY AND A SPECIAL GATORMAN THANKS TO ALL OUR VETERAN'S

THANK A VETERAN TODAY.

And now on with the show

I recently went to Buddy Guy’s Legends to see and Hear Ana Popovic. She did not go on until eleven that evening and I arrived at about 8:30. I am so glad that I did.  If I had not been early I would have missed Diamond Jim Greene. Playing harmonica with him was a acquaintance of mine Lamar Harris. They were one of two opening acts. Diamond Jim Greene is a great Delta to Piedmont acoustic blues artist. Buddy Guys Is nice ,but I was quite upset with the way people were talking and not paying much attention to the performance. I  tuned the talkers out.

He grew up on the Southside of Chicago in the 50’s.  Jim is an extraordinary bluesman whose time has come. I have listened to his CD “Holdin’ On” many times. The only problem is I only have one copy.  I need two copies, one for the car and one for the house.
Mr. Greene hits us right off with a very soulful rendition of “Please Send Me someone To Love”,
and then jumps right into “Custard Pie”, acoustic style. “Oh Glory (How Happy I Am)” captures Reverend Gary Davis’ era quite nicely. It contains some very nice vocals and musical accompaniment.  The piano man adds to the composition without distracting from it. I especially like the way the vocals build. Jim’s guitar picking is outstanding.  “Come and Go Blues” is an example of a new version of a rock blues song. I previously heard it performed by Greg Allman of the Allman brothers.  Diamond Jim does an awesome job.  “Hot Tamales”, is an example of the great early blues man Robert Johnson. What a great tribute to the man I consider to be the father of the blues. Please no emails it is my opinion and I’m sticking to it.
“Please Call Home” another Greg Allman tune features excellent guitar work from Diamond. “Gates to the City” traditionally called “Twelve Gates to the City” I first heard by Reverend Davis via Youtube.  Jim does an amazing tribute to the Reverend with this one song.
“Jug Band Music” is Memphis Jug band music to the tee.  With Jim’s Growling Vocals and the barrelhouse piano it is a step back in time and should be considered an historical recording. There are not many people preserving this type of music.  “Girlfriend Blues”, displays Jim’s prowess with slide guitar. This is one of my favorites and I wish there was more solo slide guitar.
 “Death Comes A Creeping” is another traditional song that is presented in that old down home blues style. “Eliza”, has quite a New Orleans swing to it. The piano man really pigeon holes the sound with his rolling style of finger placement. “Tee Tot Blues”   by Hank Williams Junior is about a guitar man that taught Hank how to play. Nice guitar work and violin.

This CD should be part of any blues fans collection. It is representative of many different styles of the blues. I will be out to see Diamond Jim Greene again. 
Gatorman

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